Well, we can say little more than what you're gonna hear by G.W. Sok's mouth, vocalist
of some incredible 40-ager kids. The Ex, a band which is a legend in world's underground
scene, 20 years of music, of stage life, of squat life, of street life, 20 years of records, yet also - maybe above all - of social and civil fights, often won, aside those who struggle for their existence, their rights, their needs to be recognized. That's a band with whom you can talk not only about their music, but even about the muisc business and the world generally. Unfortunately - as
our questions were sent months ago - we can't discuss of what is revolting the world
order, yet - believe me - heavy words are following. Yeah…

 

Hello, you "young veterans" of indie rock. Hope you don't get annoyed if I call you this way, but that's how you looked like when I saw your groundbreaking live gig in Torre del Greco (Naples) last autumn. How are you?
Everything's fine, thank you. We had a busy first half of 2001, releasing our latest two records ("Dizzy Spells" of The Ex and "Een Rondije Holland" of the Ex Orkest), and playing concerts all over Europe and the US. After the summer we're doing a couple of short tours, and at the same time we are preparing for a tour through Ethiopia and organising a three days festival in Wels, Austria. Exciting stuff, but I'm glad we don't have to do that the whole year through. We want to make new music also, and for that one needs a bit of rest in the head.
What's new that we don¹t know in "Dizzy Spells" if compared to the past?
What's new is that we have twelve new songs on it, and that the music brings us another step forward. Not that I really know where we are heading towards, but I feel we are still improving. The album is somehow close to the one before, "Starters Alternators" from late 1998, but I believe that although we kept our own musical characteristics, we have managed to make the songs more "accessible". Which doesn't necessarily mean that we sell more records, of course. But I have the impression that over all the last album is even more "catchy".
Apart from jazz elements (some tracks sound like jam sessions, aren't they?), a curious feature of yours is the presence of some folk heritage. Yet we know nothing about Dutch folk music. Would you say something about that (I mean about my impression and folk music)?
I'm not sure if they are really jam sessions. Basically the songs are quite structured, but yeah, we keep parts sort of open so that other, unexpected things can happen. As for the folk influences, they're not so much specifically Dutch folk influences. (Praise yourself lucky... Dutch folk music is rather, eh, clumsy, stiffish, to be honest. In my opinion Dutch folk doesn't really eh, rock.) The folk influences come from all over the place, I suppose. Some of us listen to all kinds of music from all over the world, and some of stuff sticks in your head and sneaks in to your subconscious, and at a certain moment it finds it way out into our music.
In your opinion, and according to your experience, what's the proportion as to emotional intensity between studio and stage (given studio = 100)?
It feels for me like they're both 100, but the intensity is used in a different way. In the studio one concentrates on playing as good as one can, considering the circumstances, and when you feel the
playing/recording goes really well, it can totally lift you up. During concerts, the circumstances usually are very different, depending on the equipment, the shape and size of the venue, your physical condition, etcetera, and even if you're sometimes maybe playing as good as you would like, the emotional aspect can be as rewarding, because the nice thing about playing live is the direct confrontation/encounter with the audience. Their reactions also make you help play better (or worse, of course, if they don't like what you're doing).
Do you read your record-reviews? Have they ever influenced you in some way?
Yes, we read them, and in general they can be very interesting, though we notice that there's quite a lot of them who are sort of going with the flow, so to speak. Like, journalist A, B, and C agree that this and this record is crap, and while they are sort of "important" writers, the rest doesn't dare to think or write otherwise. What also happens is that sometimes I think "hm, this guy really likes the record", but then I take a closer look and I find out that in that magazine ALL the writers basically like ALL the records. Which is impossible. I like to read reviews, not necessarily about our own records, in which the writer shows that he kind of understands the record. He doesn't necessarily has to be always superpositive about it, though, because with the right kind of criticism you can learn a lot about that record anyway. Like, you might not agree with what he says, but it can be an interesting thought.
We know very little, nearly nothing, about Dutch indie music scene. What's happening there? Has there been a growth in the local audience, or do people still prefer commercial music or non-Dutch indie acts? Is there some musician explicitly stating to be inspired by you?
We don't know so much either about the Dutch indie music scene, to be honest. We don't play so very often in Holland lately, and this makes it less easy to properly stay in contact with it. Also, we have hardly any alternative media available (no radio stations, hardly any magazines), so it's difficult to get well informed. The scene is not that big anyway, I think. Dutch music is rather popular in Holland the last couple of years, and that could have been a positive thing, were it not that most of those bands just make horrible music.
What about the Ex Orkest? I'm amazed by the fact a former-professional soccer player was involved in it. How did it happen?
Ex Orkest was formed in 2000, when we were asked to form a big band to play Ex music for the Holland Festival in Amsterdam. Because it was a Dutch festival, we thought it would be good idea to do all vocals in Dutch too. Jan Mulder (ex-Anderlecht, ex-Ajax, ex-Dutch national team) is a columnist in one of the national dailies. When he retired from playing football, fifteen years ago or so, they found out he was pretty good with words, so he was asked to write for this newspaper. And he still is, and we noticed all like the way he writes, the manner in which he goes against the grain. So we thought, why not ask him and see if he would like to do it ?
What about the 3-day festival in Austria? How did you get this chance?
This is the fifteenth edition of this festival in Wels. Every year they ask another artist to curate the festival, and since the people from the Alter Schlachthof have known us for years, and have always
liked our music, they gave us the possibility to make the program this year. We feel very honoured about that, and we hope that we will not let them down. Among our guests there's Han Bennink, Shellac, Iva Bittova, Melt Banana, Happy Wizz from Bordeaux, Zu from Rome, raoy Paci's Banda
Ionica from Sicily, Kletka Red, 4Walls, The Ex itself of course, and possibly a group of Ethiopian musicians and dancers.
What do you think about technology in music? I mean, you have a producer like Steve Albini for your records: how are recording and mixing devices important in comparison to music (meant in a strict sense)? How long has passed since DIY ethics doesn't necessarily mean lo-fi recordings for you?
I never think about technology in music, and I don't know what the others think. We always try to record our albums as good as possible, we have never thought in terms of yes or no hi-fi, lo-fi, no-fi. It is a process that grows with the years. You learn to get better control over how you want the music to sound, and how to achieve that. And I suppose it's partly also a matter of money, good
recording studios are not always cheap, and we have never been rich anyway, and sometimes you just need a bit of luck.
The Ex have got a website. What's your opinion about Napster controversy, and the general issue of musical copyright?
We can't be bothered so much with this whole controversy. I find it remarkable that it's mainly bands who already make a lot of money who were complaining about Napster. Then this mogul record corporations join in, and they basically take over Napster, and destroy it. Those big record companies should look at themselves first, for a change. If they would give the bands better royalty deals to start with, the bands would probably less picky on things like Napster. I think Napster is not the problem, the expensive CD's in the shops and the expensive concerts are the problem.
What would you change in the today's labels' - even the smaller ones - management ?
I would not change anything in the labels. I am not interested in the big ones, they usually have absolutely no taste for good music, I often have the idea they don't even really like music anyway. The main problem is that they got a big finger in the media pie, for independent bands and labels it is getting more and more difficult to get some decent coverage in magazines and on the radio, but that's also a problem within these media. If you don't follow their kiss-ass mentality the chance to be treated fairly are minimal. I don't know exactly how the situation is in Italy, but in Holland, there's only national radio, so if you're not on a big label you get no airplay whatsoever, no matter if you made the best record in the world. Magazines are not independent either, they need the adverts from the big labels, so there's not much really FREE speech there either.
When will we be seeing you in Italy?
Hopefully somewhere in 2002, because we have had a great time, the last couple of years. But then again, we haven't made any plans for next year yet, so I can't really tell.
20 years have passed since The Ex were born. Have there been changes in Holland's social and civil situation? Can music provoke social changes everywhere or does it need to operate in a place with an already good civil background to spread its influences and effects?
Holland hasn't changed very much, I think. It's still isn't too bad too live in, but it's not as free and open-minded as people from abroad use to tell us. It's a kind of lame country. That's why music
in Holland is not a weapon for change. Economy-wise Holland is going well, "everybody is doing well", so if you come and say things that go against this general feeling, people don't listen because they won't believe you. I think there is more chance for music to provoke social changes if there would be more overall unrest and uncertainty. I mean, have you ever heard of any Dutch protest-singer who made some impact? No? Well, that's exactly what I mean.

 

Roberto Villani